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Friederike Schulte, Director of Freiburg's Carl-Schurz-Haus, led the debate in her competent and charming way. The hot topic drew quite an audience, although lecture hall 1098 of the university was only partially filled.
To say it right in the beginning: There was no public outcry from the audience. It knew already that spying is the second oldest trade globally, that telephone conversations are never secret, and that sending an e-mail is like sending a postcard. The fact is that American forces are stationed in Germany, and the US government must protect them against all sorts of attacks. America is still the world power number one and would like to remain so. Power is supported by three pillars: economics (money), military, and policy.
To say it right in the beginning: There was no public outcry from the audience. It knew already that spying is the second oldest trade globally, that telephone conversations are never secret, and that sending an e-mail is like sending a postcard. The fact is that American forces are stationed in Germany, and the US government must protect them against all sorts of attacks. America is still the world power number one and would like to remain so. Power is supported by three pillars: economics (money), military, and policy.
An effective national policy requires lots of information and a good knowledge of what is happening worldwide. While in Germany, we count three intelligence services BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst), BfV (Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz), and MAD (Militärischer Abschirmdienst), the US has many more. Ordered alphabetically, there are the CIA, DIA, FBI, INR, NGA, NRO, NSA, OIA, OOI, and the Pentagon, with five separate intelligence services for Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard. For a long, intelligence services have shifted from individual to strategic observations. Modern technical means allow them to separate the wheat from the chaff and find the needle in the haystack.
After Germany regained its sovereignty after reunification in 1991, the American forces remaining in Germany had to be protected. The 4+2 Peace Treaty ersatz gave the Americans the power to do this "intelligence-wise." Before 1989 the two German states had been the hub of east-west spying. So it is naive to assume that intelligence activities stopped with the wall's fall. Edward Snowden's disclosures were a surprise not because the NSA was spying but because of the magnitude and the extent of the NSA's services. Snowden triggered an avalanche; nothing is worse for an intelligence service than public attention.
During the Cold War, American and German intelligence services worked closely together according to the principle: God bless America, and America bless (West) Germany. As one panel member assumed, the BND spies on all countries except the US. Indeed, following Snowden's revelations, one political reaction in Germany asked for German counter-intelligence: Those who spy on us must be aware that they will become a target. LOL!
Other German reactions to the NSA affair are helpless, frequently repeating the statement: Spying on friends? That does not work. Well, as we later learned, it already worked for Chancellor Schröder in 2003, who had decided that Germany would not follow the US-led Operation Iraqi Freedom. In contrast, at that time, Angela Merkel, with her Christian Democrats in opposition to the then Red-Green government, pleaded that Germany must help the USA. It turned out that her pro-American position did not help her. The NSA tapped her telephone too. Now, as a chancellor, Angela does not like to affront our American friends, e.g., in using four-letter words like the US ambassador to the EU about the EU yesterday.
Some German officials propose that the States and Germany conclude an anti-spy treaty. That is a blue-eyed position knowing that no government has its secret services under control. I even went a step further in the discussion, claiming, "It is not in the interest of governments to control the activities of their secret services for only then they may expect to receive salient information."
Dr. Deninson said that Germany should favor a strong America, and the US would like to see Germany leading in Europe. As long as Germany does not play its role, it cannot expect to dialog with the US on eye level. It was interesting to observe the different discussion cultures. Here was the outspoken American, and there was the German professor who explained in length and carping details the results of his research. In between, the investigative journalist argues prudently, somewhat refined through negative experiences. Their arguing, supported by their sitting order on the panel, reminded me of an aphorism: Prophete rechts, Prophete links, das Weltkind in der Mitten.*
*Prophets right, and Prophets left, the world-child in the middle, is drawn from Goethe's epigrammatic poem Dinner at Coblenz. He wrote it in the summer of 1774 when he sat between Lavater and Basedow. Weltkind is literally "world-child," a term that Goethe applies to himself, satirizing at the same time Lavater and his followers.
Should Germany lead in Europe as the American in Berlin Eric T. Hansen wrote in Die Zeit? Wenn nicht mehr nur Obama, Bush, Nixon und Co. in diversen US-Medien mit Hitler verglichen werden, sondern Merkel ebenso, dann wissen Sie, dass Deutschland auch vom Rest der Welt da draußen endlich als gleichberechtigter Partner anerkannt wurde (When not only Obama, Bush, Nixon, and company are compared to Hitler in various US-Media but Merkel as well then you know that eventually Germany is recognized as an equal partner by the rest of the world). Saying it clearer in an alteration to Emanuel Geibel's definition of Germany's vocation: Soll Europa am deutschen Wesen genesen? (Should Europe recover by going the German way?). I think the Greek reaction was sufficient Mr. Hansen!
In the end, the audience left somewhat unsatisfied. It possibly needs a series of lectures and discussions to come to grips with the NSA debate.
PS: It is comforting that Dr. Denison categorically excluded the NSA spying on German industry for such a practice would be against US law. According to him, industrial espionage still works the classical way. Dirty men with slouch heads steal blueprints from, e.g., German car-makers and fly them in their wallets over the Atlantic. This will not work, for over here, all is metric, whereas, in the States, they need those blueprints dimensioned in inches.
After Germany regained its sovereignty after reunification in 1991, the American forces remaining in Germany had to be protected. The 4+2 Peace Treaty ersatz gave the Americans the power to do this "intelligence-wise." Before 1989 the two German states had been the hub of east-west spying. So it is naive to assume that intelligence activities stopped with the wall's fall. Edward Snowden's disclosures were a surprise not because the NSA was spying but because of the magnitude and the extent of the NSA's services. Snowden triggered an avalanche; nothing is worse for an intelligence service than public attention.
During the Cold War, American and German intelligence services worked closely together according to the principle: God bless America, and America bless (West) Germany. As one panel member assumed, the BND spies on all countries except the US. Indeed, following Snowden's revelations, one political reaction in Germany asked for German counter-intelligence: Those who spy on us must be aware that they will become a target. LOL!
Other German reactions to the NSA affair are helpless, frequently repeating the statement: Spying on friends? That does not work. Well, as we later learned, it already worked for Chancellor Schröder in 2003, who had decided that Germany would not follow the US-led Operation Iraqi Freedom. In contrast, at that time, Angela Merkel, with her Christian Democrats in opposition to the then Red-Green government, pleaded that Germany must help the USA. It turned out that her pro-American position did not help her. The NSA tapped her telephone too. Now, as a chancellor, Angela does not like to affront our American friends, e.g., in using four-letter words like the US ambassador to the EU about the EU yesterday.
Some German officials propose that the States and Germany conclude an anti-spy treaty. That is a blue-eyed position knowing that no government has its secret services under control. I even went a step further in the discussion, claiming, "It is not in the interest of governments to control the activities of their secret services for only then they may expect to receive salient information."
Dr. Deninson said that Germany should favor a strong America, and the US would like to see Germany leading in Europe. As long as Germany does not play its role, it cannot expect to dialog with the US on eye level. It was interesting to observe the different discussion cultures. Here was the outspoken American, and there was the German professor who explained in length and carping details the results of his research. In between, the investigative journalist argues prudently, somewhat refined through negative experiences. Their arguing, supported by their sitting order on the panel, reminded me of an aphorism: Prophete rechts, Prophete links, das Weltkind in der Mitten.*
*Prophets right, and Prophets left, the world-child in the middle, is drawn from Goethe's epigrammatic poem Dinner at Coblenz. He wrote it in the summer of 1774 when he sat between Lavater and Basedow. Weltkind is literally "world-child," a term that Goethe applies to himself, satirizing at the same time Lavater and his followers.
Should Germany lead in Europe as the American in Berlin Eric T. Hansen wrote in Die Zeit? Wenn nicht mehr nur Obama, Bush, Nixon und Co. in diversen US-Medien mit Hitler verglichen werden, sondern Merkel ebenso, dann wissen Sie, dass Deutschland auch vom Rest der Welt da draußen endlich als gleichberechtigter Partner anerkannt wurde (When not only Obama, Bush, Nixon, and company are compared to Hitler in various US-Media but Merkel as well then you know that eventually Germany is recognized as an equal partner by the rest of the world). Saying it clearer in an alteration to Emanuel Geibel's definition of Germany's vocation: Soll Europa am deutschen Wesen genesen? (Should Europe recover by going the German way?). I think the Greek reaction was sufficient Mr. Hansen!
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PS: It is comforting that Dr. Denison categorically excluded the NSA spying on German industry for such a practice would be against US law. According to him, industrial espionage still works the classical way. Dirty men with slouch heads steal blueprints from, e.g., German car-makers and fly them in their wallets over the Atlantic. This will not work, for over here, all is metric, whereas, in the States, they need those blueprints dimensioned in inches.
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